Truth in the end times. Biblical Christians.

Biblical Christians. THE TRUTH FOR THE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS CHRIST "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Is membership in churches a condition of salvation?

Wczoraj byłem w jednym z kościołów kieleckich na nabożeństwie. Pastor na wstępie zapowiedział, co będzie tematem tego nabożeństwa, a było nim “rola aniołów na podstawie biblii”. Ostrzegał on o zbytniej koncentracji na aniołach z czym oczywiście się zgadzam. Była także mowa o niebiblijnym modleniu się katolików do aniołów.

However, the climax came in the first chapter of the Apocalypse. On the basis of this chapter, the pastor proved the thesis that the condition for Jesus to take people away is that they belong to a particular church. He considered that the stars of the apocalypse are pastors and elders of churches. Let us recall how this looks in the aforementioned apocalypse:

 

” A oto tajemnica siedmiu gwiazd, któreś ujrzał w mojej prawej ręce, i siedmiu złotych świeczników: siedem gwiazd – to aniołowie siedmiu Kościołów, a siedem świeczników – to siedem Kościołów”. ” Apokalipsa 1

 

The shepherd of one of the churches in Kielce argued that an angel, meaning messenger, is a messenger from God, a leader appointed by God.

Podkreślał on negatywną postawę wiary poza zborowej. Jak to ludzie spoza zborów są tacy “independent”.

Owszem zgadzam się, jest duże zagrożenie wynikające z braku społeczności chrześcijańskiej. Zauważam to dość wyraźnie na blogu, w internecie. Co blog to inne, swoje doktryny i fatalne owoce ducha a w nich króluje pycha wiedzy. Tu gdzieś przeczytam tam przeczytam i ja wiem swoje i niech mi nikt nie gada jaki mam być…

In general, if there was going to be such a convention of Christians from all the internet forums, I would not come to 100%. I have brothers and sisters I know who have the fruit of the Holy Spirit, and that's enough for me.

Well, but let's get to the point. after all, I have Biblical Christians in my blog name.

So can we really say that pastors are angels of the churches? In my opinion rather not. If the apocalypse translates the seven candlesticks as the seven churches, then it should also literally translate the seven stars. The pastor directly said that the pastors are the stars.

 

Revelation also speaks of stars falling from heaven:

 

 

"(13) And the stars fell from heaven to earth, just as a fig tree shaken by a strong wind drops its unripe fruit to the ground. 
Apokalipsa (Objawienie)”

 

Jeśli przyjmiemy paradygmat pastora, to z nieba w tym fragmencie spadają pastorzy….

Ok, sometimes it is the case that one word has several meanings. In the gospels, John the Baptist is portrayed as a messenger, which can be understood as an angel.

 

Jednakże pojawia się kolejny problem. Przez długi czas w historii Biblii nie istniało wyrażenie kościół. Była za to eklezja – zgromadzenie.  Kościół w formie jakiej jest obecnie, jest instytucją, budynkiem, denominacją. Czy  w tej sytuacji Pan Jezus przyjdzie po denominacje i zapisanych do niej członków? Mamy w Irlandii siostrę. Stanowi ona dla mnie samego wzór wiary. Niestety nie chodzi ona do zboru choćby z przyczyn logistycznych. Według koncepcji pastora Pan Jezus jej nie zabierze, ponieważ nie należy do zboru……

Czysto hipotetycznie obala sens wypowiedzi pastora film Left Behind pokazujący pozostawionego… pastora.

It is a film, but films are made on the basis of truth. We can only verify this truth and I am verifying it at this moment. Well, the Lord Jesus said:

 

 

“«Oto moja mother and my brothers. For he who does the will of God, this Mi is a brother, sister and mother».” Mateusza 12.

 

Pan Jezus nie powiedział “ten kto będzie w denominacji zorganizowanej i zatwierdzonej przez prawo rzymskie, ten będzie zbawiony. Kryterium jest pełnienie woli Ojca, czyli 2 przykazań: Kochaj Boga swego i bliźniego swego. Nie kochasz Boga kiedy nie pełnisz Jego woli. Nie kochasz bliźnich, kiedy ich oczerniasz, niszczysz, jesteś niemiły.

 

In my estimation, the seven churches symbolize seven different TYPES of ecclesia (church), not seven actual organized churches.

I would like to emphasize that I personally encourage people to join churches from time to time, but I do not believe that salvation depends on it. Yes, one learns humility there, which many online pseudo followers of Jesus would find useful, but the ecclesia of Jesus is invisible in the sense of organization.

The Lord Jesus said

 

“Bóg jest Duchem i Jegoo worshippers powinni Go czcić w Duchu i prawdzie”

 

Not in a religious organization such as a denomination, but in the Spirit (Holy) showing its fruit according to Galatians:

 

 

“”Owocem zaś ducha jest: miłość, radość, pokój, cierpliwość, uprzejmość, dobroć, wierność, łagodność, opanowanie. Przeciw takim /cnotom/ nie ma Prawa.” (Ga 5,22-23 Biblia Tysiąclecia) “

 

 

You have no love in you, you have no fruit of the Spirit

You have no peace, you have no fruit of the Spirit.

You have no goodness in you, you have no fruit of the Spirit

etc.

 

At conventions we meet in the name of Jesus. Do we have to start a religion? Apply to the court to register the religion and then we will be saved?

A pastor from Kielce said he is on the board of the Polish ecumenical alliance. It is an ecumeny of Protestants. So if we are not in any denomination in the alliance, are we condemned people?

 

"

jak bowiem w jednym ciele mamy wiele członków, a nie wszystkie członki spełniają tę samą czynność – podobnie wszyscy razem tworzymy jedno ciało w Chrystusie, a każdy z osobna jesteśmy nawzajem dla siebie członkami” (Rz 12, 4-5)”

 

 

You can see by the above verse that all of us in Christ, or yakom followers bearing the Fruit of the Spirit are the body of Christ, not the churches. I know such churches that I would rather go to a game than to a particular church. Sorry, but for the sake of just reading the Bible without the fruit of the Spirit of the church I have no intention of coming. You might as well go to sites where someone acknowledges Jesus as Lucifer, or deletes half the NT by rejecting Paul.

 

 

In conclusion, fellowship in Christ is important. It has helped me a lot. In hard times I had someone to pray for me and I had someone to pray for. It takes being among other believers to learn humility and to be able to argue in love. On the internet, everyone is brave behind the monitor. The Internet is full of such Bruce Lee's, kicking someone from a distance, and in real life they are as meek as lambs.

However, the church is not a condition of salvation. The situation is similar to the dilemma of having to get married. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that sex before marriage is a sin, but it does say that intercourse commits one to marriage whatever one sees and calls it, and changing partners without a biblical reason is the sin of adultery.

 

Beloved, don't believe everything pastors and church elders say. Confront it with the Bible.

“Poznacie prawdę, a prawda Wa wyzwoli”

 

Nie chce tego pastora oskarżać, ale kto wie, czy w czasach Wielkiego Ucisku, ludzie będący poza zborami i w niezgodzie z doktrynami religijnymi nie będą piętnowani….

 

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Updated: 1 August 2017 — 08:28

78 Comments

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  1. Regularne spotkania w zborze przy Stole Pańskim to bardzo, ale to bardzo ważna sprawa (co widzę po sobie). Wiele o tym mówi Pismo, np. “Nie opuszczając naszego wspólnego zgromadzenia, jak to niektórzy mają w zwyczaju, ale zachęcając się nawzajem, i to tym bardziej, im bardziej widzicie, że zbliża się ten dzień” (List do Hebrajczyków 10:25, UBG). Są i inne wersety, np. o śpiewaniu Panu na “zgromadzeniu świętych”:
    “Alleluja. Śpiewajcie PANU nową pieśń; niech jego chwała zabrzmi w zgromadzeniu świętych” (Psalm 149:1, UBG). Tak więc Bóg nakazuje być w zgromadzeniu świętych, dając taki wzór w Swoim Słowie.

    I feel sorry for Christians living in a remote area where there are only Roman temples, or a supposedly Christian church where demonic doctrines like glossolalia and the gospel of success are preached.

    Słyszałem i wiem, że są tacy, co bardzo wiele by dali, by móc mieć społeczność w zgromaddeniu świętych i to Bogu się podoba, i On wysłucha próśb, by pokierować czyjeś kroki w kierunku miejsca, gdzie jest zdrowa nauka – nawet jeśli jest ono daleko. To aż tak ważne. A postawa przeciwstawna bardzo Mu się nie podoba, co na pewno ukaże w Duchu ludziom nią się charakteryzującym. Tak więc kto nie ma zboru niech usilnie dąży do znalezienia go, a ten, kto ma, niech bywa w nim regularnie.

    1. Your church is unique. Its uniqueness is based on its intimacy. This promotes closer relationships and interaction.

      1. Ciekawe stwierdzenie o tej wyjątkowości! 🙂 Masz porównanie, bo ja bym tego chyba nie wyłapał, w tak wielu nie byłem 🙂 …

        We are actually few in number, with about 30 people coming regularly, but, as you noted, we have all gotten to know each other and continue to get to know each other, and there are closer relationships. I wish that the Lord would direct everyone's steps to a similar place, where one can serve other brothers and sisters with whom one has a longer relationship. It doesn't have to be very close right away, but it does matter.

        It would be a good initiative to pray for our pastors and brothers and sisters that there would be spiritual unity and sound doctrine free from heresy in the churches. We thank God the Father for all good teachers of His Word.

        1. Jack, and what community are you in?
          Do you have your own website?

          1. It is called the Church of God in Lodz. It is a church that does not belong to any denomination. It was founded by a group of missionaries from Texas, now living permanently in Poland.

            The website is, but very simple: http://www.kosciolbozywlodzi.com

            Mamy z tego co wiem dwa “zaprzyjaźnione” zbory założone przez tych ludzi w Warszawie-Aninie i w Toruniu.

            1. The event of these Christian Americans ( coming from a country of various abundance, spiritual and material ) to the everything-hungry Poland of the 90s must have been quite a cognitive shock to their image of a civilized country 😉 . Congratulations to them for not running away 😉 . Godspeed.

            2. Oh, it's nice that you have a place to get together and talk about the Bible 🙂
              All the best and good health!

            3. Jack,
              “Wierzący mogą stracić korony i nagrody, ale on sam jest zachowany przez Chrystusa-“to ze str.Twego zboru.
              Jack,
              and how do you understand Revelation 2.7,10,11
              There are listed prizes ONLY for the winners.
              As you believe-you can lose them and still be saved.
              The point is, the prize that can be lost is:
              Obj2.7
              I will give the victor to eat fruit from the tree of life 4 which is in the paradise of God.
              (loser loses access to the tree of life)
              Rev2.10
              Be faithful until death,
              and I will give you a wreath of life.
              (loser loses the wreath of life)
              Obj2.11
              The winner's death the other 8 certainly won't do any harm.
              (to the loser, the death of the other WILL cause harm)
              Obj3.5
              Thus the white robes shall the victor wear,
              and I will not erase his name from the book of life 4.
              (loser's name WILL BE REMOVED from the book of life)
              Jaki wniosek LOGICZNY-przegrany,ten który utracił nagrody jest poza zba….,nie ma go w księdze zycia,nie ma dostępu do drzewa życia,nie ma wieńca zycia.
              It seems that without these rewards, man is beyond -logically speaking.
              Regarding spiritual gifts, of course they are, and they are all on God's table.
              I pray in tongues, sing in tongues, have had a lecture a few times, a word of knowledge a few times, others have it too.
              Just because the devil did his best to discredit it (a caricature of God's true gifts) does not mean that there are no true gifts from the Lord, but rather argues that if he has so disgraced them, they are very important to the church.
              Finally, Paul writes:
              RESPECTfully seek the spiritual gifts.
              imperative,imperative mode.
              For example, languages are very edifying to me, very much so,
              I cannot imagine my prayer life without them and I constantly thank the Lord for them.
              Jack, you can see how you are growing - keep it up.
              The Lord Jesus in Mark 16.17 tells what is to accompany the believer:
              17 But to them that believe, these signs shall accompany them:
              In my name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take snakes in their hands, and if they drink anything poisoned it will not hurt them. They shall lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

              The Church is supernatural, to serve in love with these gifts too.
              Sa potrzebne,tak jak były potrzebne za czasów apostołów. ,bo demony nie wygineły jak również ciagle są chorzy na tej ziemi…
              But it is good that you are now growing there and treasuring the remembrance of the supper and SEEING AS THE MOST IMPORTANT SERVING OF YOURSELF IN LOVE.

              1. Most importantly service in love and community, yes. As here, I don't negate anyone here or at my place, even despite different experiences. Peace to you!!! 🙂 🙂

        2. Your church is truly unique and the pastors are wonderful people. I envy you such a place, such a community 🙂 .

    2. Jacku przyjrzyj się w Biblii, że jest mowa o językach, których rozum nie przyswaja i, że póki nie nastanie doskonałość – języki, uzdrowienia, proroctwa, rozeznanie duchów nie przeminą.
      I have nothing against your church, but you are a cessationist, and that trend is not in the Bible. I know several people who have spiritual gifts and beautiful testimonies.

      1. Similarly, almost no one in our church celebrates the Sabbath as it is understood here on the blog, and there is much controversy on the subject as well, or there is no wine, only juice, etc., but I will tell you that I thank God that I have the blessing that doctrinally between what I read in Scripture and what is taught in our church I do not see any discrepancy, but on the contrary - a path that has led me and the pastors to similar conclusions. Someone may have a different opinion, but it is no longer my business but that of the pastor of the church to comment on it. In our church, cessationism is considered biblical. They do a great job of explaining this issue on the Healthy Science website.

        1. Unfortunately, this website misses the truth about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
          So if I may ask, what do you think of people who have the wonderful fruit of the Spirit and have experienced His gifts contemporaneously?

          1. I hadn't thought about it to be honest. It could be autosuggestion. A person in emotion is capable of telling themselves a lot.

  2. A odpowiadając na pytanie – przynależność do zboru nie jest warunkiem, by zostać zbawionym. Natomiast wolą Ojca jest, by być jak apostołowie – w lokalnej społeczności, celebrując Wieczerzę Pańską i służąc sobie nawzajem.

  3. Tak jak mówisz; nie inaczej… 🙂

  4. Today when I was looking for something on the internet a certain website caught my eye: http://www.wiara-tecza.pl/

    Bez komentarza…

    1. Chrześcijanie lgtb… Hmmm… Nie pozostało Bogu nic innego jak przeprosić za Sodome i Gomore…

    2. to jest tak sprzeczne ze sobą, że aż niewiadomo co o tym napisać…

  5. Peter,
    premarital sex is absolutely a sin.
    A condition of marriage is:
    OPUŚCI CZŁOWIEK OJCA I MATKE…
    The bridegroom was preparing the place where he would take the bride.
    Paul writes in Eph that the husband feeds and cares for his wife (as Christ does the church).
    It is a feast for the community to know that these people are already taken, not to run for them.
    Ludzie “sypiający” (nie obok siebie )ze sobą nawet nie mysla opuścic ojca i matke czyli założyć SWOJĄ rodzine i się o nia troszczyć.
    W ST jest nawet “KARA” za seks tzw.przedmałżeński:
    that he must take her as his wife and never leave her.
    That's some punishment.
    If it were not a sin or evil, there would be no PUNISHMENT.

    1. Teresa, we were talking about. Please prove to me that premarital sex is a sin. It's not in the Bible. There is only vague circumstantial evidence based on the premise of debauchery, a very broad word.
      According to you, if someone lives from beginning to end with one partner for the rest of his life of course, but without marriage, is he committing adultery? He has made a covenant with his partner. It takes two to tango, consent. Adam and Eve were not married and yet they are called husband and wife.
      However, in this day and age, I believe that every couple should legalize their relationship so as not to offend others.

  6. Putin ,July 2016,ban on evangelism
    .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC-043mh6SQ
    God can be spoken of only in legal gatherings of registered churches, the rest to be punished

  7. 141 Samson went down to Timnah, and saw there a woman descended from the daughters of the Philistines. 2 When he returned, he told his father and mother: "In Timna I saw a certain woman among the daughters of the Philistines. Take her to me now as a wife!" 3 His father and mother said to him: "Is there not a woman among the daughters of your brothers and in all your1 nation, that you have gone to seek a wife among the uncircumcised Philistines?" Samson answered his father: "Take me this one, for she has pleased my eyes." 4 His parents did not know that this came from the Lord, who was looking for a just cause for a dispute with the Philistines, for the Philistines were ruling over the Israelites at that time. 5 So Samson went with his father and his mother to Timnah, and as he drew near to the vineyards of Timnah, behold, a young lion came roaring up against him. 6 Then the spirit of the LORD took possession of him, so that he tore the lion as one tears a kid, though he had nothing in his hand. Yet he did not give account to his father and mother of what he had done. 7 When he came to the place, he talked with the woman, and she pleased him. 8 When after some time Samson was returning to take her as his wife, he turned aside to look at the carcass of a lion, and behold, a swarm of bees and honey were in the carcass. 9 So he took it in his hand and ate, and when he came to his father and mother, he gave them also to eat, without telling them that he had gathered the honey from the lion's carcass. 10 Then his father went to the woman, and a wedding was made to Samson
    which lasted seven days, for this was the custom of the young men. 11 But because they feared2 him, they chose thirty companions to be with him.

    12 Samson addressed them in the words: "Let me submit a riddle to you. If you can solve it for me within seven days, I will be able to do it.
    I will give you thirty linen tunics and thirty ornamental robes.
    In Revelation 19.9-the feast of the Lamb.
    How can you talk about adultery if you don't know,
    that it's PEOPLE'S BED.
    Has this ever been announced publicly?
    The community needs to know that these people have separated for each other because it makes life easier and does not encourage immorality.
    God is not a God of conjecture.
    Adam and Eve had no one to announce it to but themselves.
    You write:not to make things worse.
    So does that make people worse off?
    but why?
    Because God has written it into us, just as people used to be strongly offended by a man's long hair, because - Paul writes - it is against nature.

    1. ” Następnie jego ojciec poszedł do owej kobiety i sprawiono Samsonowi WESELE
      które trwało siedem dni, ”

      First of all, who gave him so many vacation days for the wedding. Second seriously there is still no order anywhere. Of course in those days no one could live with a woman without marriage. Well, unless in sin. Kesja we agree on this, but you don't want to admit to me that there is no mention in the Bible of prohibiting intercourse before marriage. What you write is as I said circumstantial and I am very much in favor of every Christian couple getting married.
      I would add that if the delinquent cohabited with the girl before marriage, he paid the father 50 shekels perhaps. This is also an indication of the obligation to marry

  8. Peter, is it a sin for them to sleep together, but for him not to marry her?
    Is that how you understand it?

    1. The thing is, there's no such thing as commitment-free sex.

      1. What about legitimate wives vs. concubines? I think the female domestics were that kind of non-committal sex?

        Wiem, że Piotr ma inne zdanie. Ja uważam, że małżeństwo jest jedno i do śmierci, Pan Jezus przywrócił obraz małżeństwa z Edenu “jedno ciało”. Tak jak Kościół jest “żoną” i z Oblubieńcem stanowi jedno ciało. Izrael ze ST wiele razy cudzołożył z obcymi bogami, ale mimo to Pan ich nie opuścił i cieszył się kiedy wracali. Oni mieli zatwardziale serca i Mojżesz im dozwolił poligamię czy rozwody. My mamy być świętymi jako Kościół.
        The verse from Paul about freedom is difficult. In general the whole topic of marriage is like that which is why I understand Paul's phrase that it is better to remain free, I really began to understand it in the context of indissolubility, a lifelong decision with all the consequences.
        I can't remember now where, but it is said that the abandoned one is exposed to adultery i.e. there is no this freedom to remarry in my estimation. Freedom could mean permanent separation?

        1. “Widziała także, że Ja właśnie z powodu wszystkich cudzołóstw odrzuciłem odstępną żonę, Izraela, i dałem jej list rozwodowy”. Jeremiasza 3.8
          If not, then the Jews of Judaism for 2,000 years, are still the bride of God. Decide.

      2. So sex without a marriage commitment is sinful, is that your understanding?

        1. My understanding is that sex commits one to a covenant for life except for fornication.
          I would never dare to judge someone who lives unmarried with one partner for the rest of their life.
          On the other hand, I believe that the wedding should take place for many reasons. I'm going to write a text about this because I feel misunderstood.
          Teresa and I agree that marriage should be. There is no agreement that cohabitation before marriage is a sin. I haven't seen that in the Bible.
          Side question: were Cain and Abel illegitimate children?

          1. The wedding is an announcement to the rest of the community that they are separating for themselves.
            Cain and Abel's parents-Adam and Eve-were the only ones, there was no one to inform.
            Adam powiedział:ta jest kościa z mojej kości i…
            Adam did not have a father to leave him, nor a mother, nor Eve, and God then told them about leaving their parents.
            It's different conditioning.

            1. That's good. They had no one to marry before. They could before God, but look Kesya when was the first time in the Bible that marriage was mentioned?

              Noah had a wife and when he entered the ark his sons with their wives. however, as far as I remember nowhere did it say anything about marriage like it did with Adam and Eve. Do you think God would leave out such an important
              order which is the wedding?

              1. God has not omitted, for He has promised us the wedding feast of the Lamb.
                There are different ceremonies in different cultures for the sign of marriage.
                But the most important thing is to announce publicly to the community that you want to be married.
                In communion, they wrote in the ID, it was great.

              2. A wedding is making a covenant with each other, God and the community are witnesses.
                I introduced you to what Paul is saying.
                and says that cohabitation outside of marriage is fornication, which before God is sin.

                1. Give me a quote from Kesja that says having sex before marriage is a sin

          2. There is no agreement that cohabitation before marriage is a sin
            approx.
            Then what do you call sex without marriage, without commitment, what do you call it?

            1. seks bez zobowiązań to cudzołóstwo, ale ja mówię o tych co są sobie wierni. Przypomnij sobie jak to było z Januszem 🙂 czy najpierw powiedział: wyjdziesz za mnie”, czy może coś w stylu “chce abyśmy bylki razem, lub “abyś była moją kobietą”?

              1. No, sex without commitment is fornication,
                For fornication there is another Greek word in the Bible, and for fornication another (porneia).
                You don't have to enter someone else's bed to sin fornication.
                to moze być osoba jeszcze ” niezaklepana”

                1. cudzołożnicy: “moichos”; cudzołożnik,
                  wszetczenstwo: “pornos”: z gr rozwiazly, sodomita, homoseksualista oraz cudzoloznik
                  Unfortunately, but none of these words speak of adultery involving sleeping with your woman out of wedlock. Let's be honest here. As I mentioned I recommend every Christian get married, we both have, but the truth is as I wrote.

                  Also:

                  A promiscuous man, pornos in Greek, describes a man who gives his body to the desires of another person for payment, a male prostitute, a homosexual, a man who engages in sexual practices that are against God's law.
                  An adulterer, Gr. moichos, is a person who seduces another's spouse. Regardless of the customs of a culture, God's judgment on sexual abuse remains the same.

                  "Faithful (moichos kai moichalis- adulterer and adulteress), do you not know that friendship(philia) with the world is enmity(echtra) toward God? So if anyone wants to be a friend of the world, he becomes an enemy of God. " James 4: 4

                2. Wedlug tego swiata moze “robic co chcesz” gdyz jestes tylko zwierzeciem ludzkim ( zwlaszcza w jego wersjach najbardziej zdegenerowanych ), a wedlug Pisma nie mozesz tego czynic gdyz uwlacza to twojej godnosci jednostki czlowieczej slugi Boga, Pana Jezusa Chrystusa. A poza tym telegonia.

              2. I remember riding on the train when I was a student and I would look at the handsome guys in the compartment and when I saw a HORROR the air would immediately go out; ooo,busy.
                It's very good, such a ring, it organizes everything.
                You know, that would be someone else's bed.
                Dot, no more dreams, look for a girl (boy) further but not here.
                But we're doing well today.

                1. “Pamietam jak jezdżąc pkp w czasie studiów zawieszałam wzrok na przystojniakach w przedziale i kiedy widziałam OBRACZKĘ od razu powietrze uchodziło;ooo,zajety.”

                  that was me in that range 🙂

                  And seriously, the history of the wedding ring is barely a few hundred years old

                  “Zwyczaj wręczania obrączek został przyjęty w Kościele dopiero w XIII wieku. Początkowo nosiła ją wyłącznie kobieta. W czasach wojennych, gdy małżonek udawał się na wojnę, łamano tę obrączkę na pół i dzielono pomiędzy małżonków, by przypominały im o przysiędze wierności i trwałości ich związku. Natomiast sam akt podarowania i przyjęcia obrączek traktowany jest jako połączenie zakochanych na dobre i na złe. Ich podobieństwo jest znakiem, że kobieta i mężczyzna są jednością od chwili zawarcia związku małżeńskiego.”

                  On the other hand, of course, despite the young age of this tradition, I also support ringing as a signal to others: no tearing up.
                  Właściwie było…

  9. I used to stop at Jer 3.8 too
    But God goes on to say:
    Jer 3.12…
    WRÓĆ, Izraelu-Odstępco – wyrocznia Pana.
    I will NOT show you the face of the raw,
    bo miłosierny jestem – wyrocznia Pana –
    I will not be angry forever.

    13 JUST ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR GUILT,

    That you have rebelled against the Lord your God,
    i włóczyłaś się po wszystkich drogach [ku obcym] –
    Under every green oak tree,
    a głosu mojego NIE SŁUCHAŁAŚ – wyrocznia Pana.

    14 6 WRÓĆCIE, synowie wiarołomni – wyrocznia Pana –
    For I am your Lord and I WILL ACCEPT you,

    one from each city, two from each family7,
    to PROVIDE to Zion.

    15 I dam wam pasterzy według mego serca, by was paśli rozsądnie i roztropnie. 16 A gdy się rozmnożycie i wydacie liczne potomstwo na ziemi w tamtych dniach – wyrocznia Pana – nikt nie będzie już mówił: “Arka Przymierza Pańskiego!” Nikt już nie będzie o niej myślał ani jej wspominał, odczuwał jej braku, ani też nie uczyni nowej8.
    17 In those days Jerusalem will be called the Throne of the Lord.

    All nations will gather in it in the name of the Lord
    and they will no longer walk according to the hardness of their perverse hearts.
    18 In those days the house of Judah will go to the house of Israel, and they will come according to the north country to the land that I gave for an inheritance to your ancestors.
    The Lord's love and faithfulness is incomprehensible.

    1. I had the same thing 🙂 I also stopped, then read on and then analyzed the NT.
      Podkreśliłaś słowo “wróć”. Przez 2500 lat nie wrócili.

      “17 6 Jeżeli zaś niektóre gałęzie have been cut off, a na ich miejsce zostałeś wszczepiony ty, który byłeś dziczką oliwną, i razem [z innymi gałęziami] z tym samym korzeniem złączony na równi z nimi czerpałeś soki oliwne” Rzymian

      Cut off, and in their PLACE.
      In the introduction, Paul gives details:

      “Pytam więc: Czyż Bóg odrzucił lud swój? Żadną miarą! I ja przecież jestem Izraelitą1, potomkiem Abrahama, z pokolenia Beniamina. 2 Nie odrzucił Bóg swego ludu, który wybrał przed wiekami.”

      But what does God's answer proclaim to him?
      I left myself seven thousand men who did not bend their knees before Baal.3
      5 Therefore even at this time only the remnant remain, chosen by grace. 6 But if by grace, it is no longer on account of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
      7 What then? Israel did not achieve what they eagerly sought; however, the elect did.

      Look then at the goodness and severity of God. Harshness [is shown] to those who have fallen, and God's kindness to you, if only you persevere in [the circle of] that kindness; otherwise you'll be cut out too. 23 And they also, if they do not persist in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God has power to graft them in again

      Israel's rejection is thus partial. Part has been cut off at 100% irrevocably. The rest has time.
      Konkluzja jest taka: Bóg znalazł sobie nową oblubienicę wśród pogan. My nią jesteśmy. My jesteśmy eklezją Jezusa i również częściowo możemy zostać wycięci…

  10. Ja widze to tak,ze Bóg zaoferował Izrael – (rodz.żeński)odstępczej żonie po liscie rozwodowym jeszcze więcej ,bo nowe serce i nowego ducha,jesli uzna swoją wine ale oni (wiekszośc)to odrzuciła ale korzeń jest ciągle ten sam-Izrael?

    1. The root is Abraham.

      “Z tego możecie poznać, że ci, którzy są z wiary, są synami Abrahama.” Gal 3.7
      “Aby błogosławieństwo Abrahamowe przeszło na pogan w Jezusie Chrystusie, my zaś, abyśmy obiecanego Ducha otrzymali przez wiarę
      A jeśli jesteście Chrystusowi, tedy jesteście potomkami Abrahama, dziedzicami według obietnicy.””

      This is the root. We are descendants not of the flesh, but of the spirit.

    2. I have a similar opinion to you Kesjo, Israel continues to be the chosen people, and we are grafted into it.
      The fact is, they have rejected the Lord Jesus, but He is waiting for them.
      We should intercede for them, that they may repent.

      1. Lena do you think the current Zionist Israel is the chosen people?

        1. Yes I believe they are descendants of Abraham, God's chosen people.
          They have broken their covenant with God and are now more like the cradle of evil than a chosen people.

          1. this raises a problem because if we take as a model, a model for considering the analysis of the apocalypse Israel as the beast that was and is not, this system of the Pharisees, then it would appear that the beast will be saved.

            1. Well yes I understand what you are trying to tell me.
              Nevertheless, I believe they are Israel.Unfortunately they have rejected the Lord and serve whom they serve.
              Salvation is in Jesus and is available to them too, they just need a change of heart and thinking.

              1. This is the synagogue of Satan as described in the Bible, and therefore cannot be the people of God.
                Of course you can't put everyone in one pot, but political Zionists can.
                I am convinced, and I know this from a report I once posted, that there are many pious Jews in Israel and they even hate Zionists, which was expressed during a protest that was passed over in silence by the media:

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj-6XFbbesI

                1. Oh you see how you wrote it beautifully ☺ and full agreement with it.
                  My mistake for not being specific about what I meant.

        2. And isn't the current Israel with the star of Remfan on the flag a creation of the Rothschilds?

          1. And even if it was created by the Rothschilds, was it not by God's permission.

            1. Yes, there, everything happens as part of God's provision. And not only there

        3. And you Peter, who do you think is the chosen people?

        4. There are few genetic Jews in Israel today, I think those who claim to be Jews but are not, and they are a synagogue of Satan (Rev. 3.9) and the natives.
          The way I see it, I could be wrong.

            1. It is obvious to me what is being questioned here.
              Someone's GENESES, ORIGIN is not important
              because in the New Covenant the CHOSEN NATION are all those who have believed in Jesus. And this is not a genealogical election but a FAITH election.

              The Lord Jesus said, to those who rejected Him, that He would take away their inheritance and give it to another nation.
              That nation is a priestly nation, holy in Christ born of the Spirit.

              He completely fails to understand this type of question of who is the chosen people when it is clearly and distinctly defined in the NT.

              And it doesn't matter if someone in their own or someone else's opinion is good if they don't believe in Jesus, they will not be saved.
              For the Lord Jesus says that only God is good, and every man has sinned.

              My możemy głosić ewangelię o zbawieniu, ale jeśli ktoś nie chce jej przyjąć w/g NT czyni się nie godnym swego zbawienia czyli życia wiecznego – odrzuca dar Boży.

              Wielu teraz mówi, że zbawieni będą “dobrzy ludzie” i że nie trzeba wierzyć w Boga, aby otrzymać miejsce w Królestwie Bożym.

              But the NT says otherwise.

              Who will save you if you don't believe in God?
              Who will justify you if you do not believe in Jesus?
              Can man save himself?

              And here is the crux, for salvation and to receive an inheritance in the Kingdom of God unquestionably requires faith in Jesus, the God of all the earth.

              If it were otherwise, then Jesus came in vain, suffered in vain, taught in vain, FOR YOU NEED NOT BELIEVE IN HIM TO BE SAVED.

              This is the twist of today's teachings that are not consistent with God's Word.

              The greatest sin is to reject Jesus, as He Himself speaks of in the gospel.

  11. 1)Yes, the Pharisees said that they had Abraham as their father.
    Yes, Abraham is the father of Israel.
    Maybe some of us have abraham genes, too.
    1Cor7.2
    2)But in view of the danger of debauchery (porneia -wedding, debauchery), let every man have his wife, and every woman her husband.
    Sex without marriage is a sin of debauchery (porneia).
    1kor 6.9
    9 6 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not possess the kingdom of God? Be not deceived!
    Neither ROZPUSTER (PORNOS),
    neither idolaters, nor adulterers, nor divorcees, nor men cohabiting with themselves, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor revilers will inherit the kingdom of God.
    Sex without marriage is debauchery (porneia) and is punishable by the lake of fire (Rev. 22.15-porneia-pornos).

    1. Dissenters.

      “osoba rozpustna, czyli taka, która nie uznaje zasad moralnych, obyczajowych, prowadzi hulaszczy, swobodny tryb życia; lubieżnik, babiarz, dziwkarz”
      https://sjp.pl/rozpustnik

    2. It should be recalled that Abraham had two sons:
      James and EZAWA.
      It was Jacob who was chosen by God and given the promise of inheritance, not EZAW.
      In God's eyes, Jacob is the righteous one, while Esau is the rejected son of Abraham.

      Umiłowałem was – mówi Pan – a wy mówicie: W czym okazałeś nam miłość? Czy Ezaw nie był bratem Jakuba? – mówi Pan – a Ja jednak umiłowałem Jakuba,

      And Esau I hated, and made desolate his mountains, and gave his inheritance to the jackals of the desert.

      Though Edom say, We are indeed broken down, but we will rebuild the ruins again, the Lord of hosts says: They shall rebuild, but I will tear down; and they shall call them a land of iniquity, and a people against whom the Lord is always angry.

      Your eyes will see it and you will confess it for yourselves: Great is the Lord beyond the borders of Israel.

      Syn czci ojca, a sługa swojego pana. Jeżeli jestem ojcem, TO GDZIEŻ JEST MOJA CZEŚĆ? A jeżeli jestem panem, TO GDZIEŻ JEST BOJAŹŃ PRZEDE MNĄ? – mówi Pan Zastępów do was, kapłani, którzy gardzicie moim imieniem. Wy jednak mówicie: W czym wzgardziliśmy twoim imieniem? Mal.1

      This passage points to people who have no fear of God, no obedience to the Father's commands.
      They serve the devil.

      It was to these descendants of Esau from the lineage of Abraham that Jesus was speaking. This was the Pharisaic Edom.
      That is why the Lord Jesus said, so what if you invoke Abraham, that you have him as your father, when your DOINGS ARE WRONG, ABRAHAM DID NOT DO THAT.

      Esau in his covetousness of belly gave his pre-eminence to Jacob. This, by the way, happened with God's permission.
      Today the descendants of the Pharisees, using lies, deceit and trickery, want to claim this leadership for themselves by calling themselves the chosen people, which is a lie.
      They do so contrary to what God has decreed and promised, and His promise is sure.
      Pan Jezus dał ważną wskazówkę, aby móc ich rozpoznać – są to owoce jakie wydają.

      Kto wspiera w tej chwili ten “naród” faktycznie wspiera samego szatana w odbudowaniu królestwa szatana na ziemi.
      It helps establish his authority over all the earth.

      Cain,Kenites,Canaanites,Edomites,Idumeans,Pharisees,Rabbis,Jews.

      Snakes! Lizard-kind! and how can ye escape the judgment of hellfire?
      Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes; and of them ye shall kill and crucify some, and scourge some in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city;
      That all the blood of righteousness, which was shed upon the earth, might come upon you FROM THE BLOOD OF THE JUST ABEL, unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachiah, which ye slew between the church and the altar.
      Verily I say unto you, It shall all come upon this nation.
      Jerusalem! Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which were sent unto thee, Whenever I would have gathered thy children together, as a cockatoo gathereth his chickens under his wings, and ye would not?
      Behold, your house will remain empty.

      The Lord Jesus Himself tells us that they are the offspring of Cain.
      They are the enemies of the righteous people, the offspring of Jacob.

      That's why Jews today are so self-denying that they don't have to convert to Jesus.
      And others say not to convert them.

      WHY?

      The Lord Jesus explains it, they cannot and cannot believe in the Messiah because they have the devil for a father and not God. That is why their deeds are so bad.
      They have built their power on lies, they have no mercy for people.This is a nation that is against all people on earth except themselves.

      1. And they said unto him, WE ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, AND HAVE NEVER SERVED ANYONE: as thou sayest, Ye shall be free.
        And Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that whosoever doeth sin is the servant of sin.
        And the servant does not dwell in the house forever, but the Son dwells forever.
        Therefore, if the Son delivers you, you shall be truly free.
        I know THAT YOU ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM: but ye seek to kill me, that MY SPEECH hath NO PLACE IN YOU.
        What I have seen of my Father, I say; and what you have seen of your Father, do ye also.
        They answered and said to him, Our father is Abraham. And Jesus said unto them, IF YOU WERE ABRAHAM'S SONS, YOU WOULD DO ABRAHAM'S WORKS.
        But now ye seek to slay me, this man, whereof I have told you the truth, which I have heard of God; ABRAHAM HAVE NOT DOEN THIS.
        YE DO THE WORKS OF YOUR FATHER. And they said to him: We are not begotten in sexual intercourse, but we have one Father, God.
        Then Jesus said to them, "If God were your father, then you would love me, for I came from God and am come; I came from myself, but he sent me.
        Why do you not understand my novel? BECAUSE YOU CANNOT HEAR MY SPEECH.
        YOU ARE FROM YOUR FATHER A LIE, and do ye the lusts of your father: for he was a MAN from the beginning, and hath not stayed in the truth: for in him is no truth: when he speaketh a lie, of his own he saith, HE IS A LIE, AND THE FATHER OF A LIE.
        And I, that I am telling the truth, DON'T BELIEVE ME.
        Which of you will blame me for sin? If I speak the truth, do ye not believe me?
        He that is of God heareth the words of God; THEREFORE YOU DO NOT HEAR, THAT YOU ARE NOT OF GOD.
        And the Jews answered and said unto him, Sayest thou not that we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and that thou hast transgressed?
        Jesus answered, I have no idolatry, but I worship my Father; and YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME.
        I am not seeking my glory; he is the one who seeks and judges.
        Verily, verily, I say unto you, If any man keep my words, he shall not see death for ever.
        And the Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou art a rabble, and Abraham is dead, and the prophets, and thou sayest, If any man keep my words, he shall not taste death for ever;
        Art thou not greater than our father Abraham, who is dead, and the prophets are dead?
        Jesus answered: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God.
        BUT YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM, and I know him; and if I had said that I did not know him, I would have been a liar like you; but I know him, and keep his words.
        Abraham your father joyfully demanded to see my day, and he watched and rejoiced.
        And the Jews said unto him: Fifty years hast thou not yet, and hast thou seen Abraham?
        And Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
        And they took up stones to hurl at him; but Jesus took refuge, and went out of the church, and passed through their midst, and so escaped.

        See what the seed of the serpent says at the beginning:
        WE HAVE NEVER SERVED ANYONE

        By this they confessed that they never served God, they always serve only themselves - gods on earth

      2. Sorry, but it was supposed to be Isaac son of Abraham had two sons, EZAW and Jacob.

  12. It's not about the Bible.
    Here it is clear that if you do not have a wife and you have sexual affairs, you are a fornicator, a debauchee.
    Porn is unfortunately a broad term, hence today's pornography.
    According to God, a person who has sex without marriage is also a fornicator.
    He sins,that's why it makes decent people worse,because most people today say,let them pose,let them prove themselves,if they don't then they will split.It's very practical.
    This is also what parents say about their children.
    and whatnot, let them prove themselves.

    1. no widzisz, przyjmujesz Kesja urzędowy ślub, bo nie duchowy, ale nie przyjmujesz interpretacji słownikowej “rozpusty”.
      You can't be a judge in a biblical case on a whim. So either you convince me biblically what porneia is, or you show how debauchery is understood from the Greek.

  13. Peter, thanks for the discussion, because it is very enriching.

  14. 1)I accept dictionary debauchery only supplemented biblically because the world does not seem to know it.
    2)I gave you 1 Corinthians 7.2 about porneia as, among other things, the sin of premarital sex with justification.
    You call it a vision-it's hard-it's hard.
    The crowning achievement of the marriage is sex, never the other way around.
    But now it's the bomb - a must-read for everyone, because it's about us.
    https://koscioldrogi.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/jaszua-jezus-i-jego-oblubienica/

    1. I like these sites because I learn more about God through the traditions.
      However, no one in their right mind in this day and age would pay a father for a bride and deprive themselves of the pleasure of so-called dating otherwise.
      Oczywiście popieram zachowanie czystości do ślubu. Cos pięknego. Niestety w czasach obecnych coraz mnie realne…

  15. And I will gather the remnant of Israel, and the scepter shall not depart from Judah .

  16. I remembered still ML 2.14-speaking of the marriage covenant.
    Myslisz,ze najpierw jest seks,a potem ustalanie warunków przymierza czy odwrotnie-najpierw warunki i po dogadaniu dopiero “konsumpcja” ?

    For me, it's definitely the latter.
    The former makes no sense.

    And also the Lord Jesus-first made a covenant with us, to which we agreed, and only then shall we be married, not the other way around.

  17. As for the angels in Revelation, I'd say they're superiors, overseeing the flock...
    An angel is not a sent one but a herald, an apostle is a sent one, so these elders are to preach to the people.
    Verses e.g.
    Rev 2.10-do not be afraid of suffering...
    2.20-that you allow...
    2.24-am the others...
    3.10-zachowałeś…
    indicate that it's about a person.
    Of course this is also to everyone, for the shepherd is to be a model for the flock, so God starts with him.
    Sa to też oczywiscie fazy koscioła…,na róznych płaszczyznach mozna to rozpatrywac.
    Regarding community-if someone is truly converted, they will ALWAYS be drawn to their brothers and sisters,
    Unless he is temporarily injured, he will still seek others, even one person, to share his joys and sorrows in the Lord and to serve and worship the Lord.
    Gdzie 2 lub 3 – już taka mała wspólnota wystarczy,by tez korygowac siebie wzajemnie,oczywiście zasadnie -co tez jest potrzebne.

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