Yesterday I attended a service at one of the churches in Kielce. The pastor announced at the beginning what the topic of the service would be, and it was "the role of angels based on the Bible". He warned about too much focus on angels, which of course I agree with. There was also talk about Catholics praying to angels unbiblically.
However, the climax came in the first chapter of the Apocalypse. On the basis of this chapter, the pastor proved the thesis that the condition for Jesus to take people away is that they belong to a particular church. He considered that the stars of the apocalypse are pastors and elders of churches. Let us recall how this looks in the aforementioned apocalypse:
" And this is the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and of the seven golden candlesticks: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven candlesticks are the seven churches. " Revelation 1
The shepherd of one of the churches in Kielce argued that an angel, meaning messenger, is a messenger from God, a leader appointed by God.
He emphasized the negativity of faith outside the church. How people outside of churches are so "independent".
Yes I agree, there is great danger from the lack of Christian community. I notice it quite clearly on the blog, on the internet. Every blog is different, its doctrines and fatal fruits of the spirit and in them reigns the pride of knowledge. I will read somewhere else and I know my own and let no one tell me how I should be....
In general, if there was going to be such a convention of Christians from all the internet forums, I would not come to 100%. I have brothers and sisters I know who have the fruit of the Holy Spirit, and that's enough for me.
Well, but let's get to the point. after all, I have Biblical Christians in my blog name.
So can we really say that pastors are angels of the churches? In my opinion rather not. If the apocalypse translates the seven candlesticks as the seven churches, then it should also literally translate the seven stars. The pastor directly said that the pastors are the stars.
Revelation also speaks of stars falling from heaven:
“(13) And the stars fell from heaven to earth, just as a fig tree shaken by a strong wind drops its unripe fruit to the ground.
Revelation (Apocalypse)"
If we adopt the pastor paradigm, then pastors fall from heaven in this passage....
Ok, sometimes it is the case that one word has several meanings. In the gospels, John the Baptist is portrayed as a messenger, which can be understood as an angel.
However, another problem arises. For a long time in the history of the Bible, the expression church did not exist. Instead, there was ecclesia, or assembly. The church as we know it today is an institution, a building, a denomination. Will the Lord Jesus come for the denomination and its enrolled members in this situation? We have a sister in Ireland. She is a model of faith for me. Unfortunately, she does not go to church, if only for logistic reasons. According to the pastor's conception the Lord Jesus will not take her because she does not belong to the church......
Purely hypothetically, it refutes the point of the pastor's statement with the Left Behind video showing the left behind...pastor.
It is a film, but films are made on the basis of truth. We can only verify this truth and I am verifying it at this moment. Well, the Lord Jesus said:
"'Behold my mother and my brothers. For he who does the will of God, this Mi is a brother, sister and mother"." Matthew 12.
The Lord Jesus did not say "whoever is in a denomination organized and approved by Roman law will be saved. The criterion is to do the will of the Father, or the 2 commandments: Love thy God and thy neighbor. You do not love God when you do not do His will. You do not love your neighbor when you slander them, destroy them, or are unkind to them.
In my estimation, the seven churches symbolize seven different TYPES of ecclesia (church), not seven actual organized churches.
I would like to emphasize that I personally encourage people to join churches from time to time, but I do not believe that salvation depends on it. Yes, one learns humility there, which many online pseudo followers of Jesus would find useful, but the ecclesia of Jesus is invisible in the sense of organization.
The Lord Jesus said
"God is Spirit and Hiso worshippers they should worship Him in Spirit and in truth."
Not in a religious organization such as a denomination, but in the Spirit (Holy) showing its fruit according to Galatians:
"'But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23 Millennial Bible) "
You have no love in you, you have no fruit of the Spirit
You have no peace, you have no fruit of the Spirit.
You have no goodness in you, you have no fruit of the Spirit
etc.
At conventions we meet in the name of Jesus. Do we have to start a religion? Apply to the court to register the religion and then we will be saved?
A pastor from Kielce said he is on the board of the Polish ecumenical alliance. It is an ecumeny of Protestants. So if we are not in any denomination in the alliance, are we condemned people?
“
For as in one body we have many members, and not all the members perform the same function - so we all together form one body in Christ, and each one individually is a member of one another" (Romans 12:4-5)"
You can see by the above verse that all of us in Christ, or yakom followers bearing the Fruit of the Spirit are the body of Christ, not the churches. I know such churches that I would rather go to a game than to a particular church. Sorry, but for the sake of just reading the Bible without the fruit of the Spirit of the church I have no intention of coming. You might as well go to sites where someone acknowledges Jesus as Lucifer, or deletes half the NT by rejecting Paul.
In conclusion, fellowship in Christ is important. It has helped me a lot. In hard times I had someone to pray for me and I had someone to pray for. It takes being among other believers to learn humility and to be able to argue in love. On the internet, everyone is brave behind the monitor. The Internet is full of such Bruce Lee's, kicking someone from a distance, and in real life they are as meek as lambs.
However, the church is not a condition of salvation. The situation is similar to the dilemma of having to get married. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that sex before marriage is a sin, but it does say that intercourse commits one to marriage whatever one sees and calls it, and changing partners without a biblical reason is the sin of adultery.
Beloved, don't believe everything pastors and church elders say. Confront it with the Bible.
"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
He doesn't want to accuse this pastor, but who knows if during the Great Tribulation, people who are outside the churches and in disagreement with religious doctrines will not be stigmatized....
___
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Meeting regularly in the church at the Lord's Table is a very, very important thing (as I see for myself). Much is said about this in Scripture, such as "Not forsaking our assembling together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near." (Hebrews 10:25, UBG). There are other verses as well, such as about singing to the Lord in the "assembly of the saints."
"Alleluia. Sing to the LORD a new song; let his glory sound in the assembly of the saints" (Psalm 149:1, UBG). So God commands to be in the congregation of the saints, giving such a pattern in His Word.
I feel sorry for Christians living in a remote area where there are only Roman temples, or a supposedly Christian church where demonic doctrines like glossolalia and the gospel of success are preached.
I have heard and know that there are some who would give a great deal to be able to have fellowship in the cluster of saints, and it pleases God, and He will hear requests to direct someone's steps toward a place of sound doctrine-even if it is far away. It's that important. And the opposite attitude displeases Him very much, which He will surely show in the Spirit to the people characterized by it. So whoever does not have a church should strive earnestly to find one, and whoever does, should attend regularly.
Your church is unique. Its uniqueness is based on its intimacy. This promotes closer relationships and interaction.
Interesting statement about that uniqueness!!! 🙂 You have a comparison, because I probably wouldn't have caught that, I haven't been in so many 🙂 ....
We are actually few in number, with about 30 people coming regularly, but, as you noted, we have all gotten to know each other and continue to get to know each other, and there are closer relationships. I wish that the Lord would direct everyone's steps to a similar place, where one can serve other brothers and sisters with whom one has a longer relationship. It doesn't have to be very close right away, but it does matter.
It would be a good initiative to pray for our pastors and brothers and sisters that there would be spiritual unity and sound doctrine free from heresy in the churches. We thank God the Father for all good teachers of His Word.
Jack, and what community are you in?
Do you have your own website?
It is called the Church of God in Lodz. It is a church that does not belong to any denomination. It was founded by a group of missionaries from Texas, now living permanently in Poland.
The website is, but very simple: http://www.kosciolbozywlodzi.com
As far as I know we have two "friendly" churches founded by these people in Warsaw-Anin and Toruń.
The event of these Christian Americans ( coming from a country of various abundance, spiritual and material ) to the everything-hungry Poland of the 90s must have been quite a cognitive shock to their image of a civilized country 😉 . Congratulations to them for not running away 😉 . Godspeed.
Oh, it's nice that you have a place to get together and talk about the Bible 🙂
All the best and good health!
Jack,
"Believers may lose their crowns and rewards, but he himself is preserved through Christ-"this from the page of your church.
Jack,
and how do you understand Revelation 2.7,10,11
There are listed prizes ONLY for the winners.
As you believe-you can lose them and still be saved.
The point is, the prize that can be lost is:
Obj2.7
I will give the victor to eat fruit from the tree of life 4 which is in the paradise of God.
(loser loses access to the tree of life)
Rev2.10
Be faithful until death,
and I will give you a wreath of life.
(loser loses the wreath of life)
Obj2.11
The winner's death the other 8 certainly won't do any harm.
(to the loser, the death of the other WILL cause harm)
Obj3.5
Thus the white robes shall the victor wear,
and I will not erase his name from the book of life 4.
(loser's name WILL BE REMOVED from the book of life)
What LOGICAL conclusion - the lost one, the one who lost the rewards is out of zba...., he is not in the book of life, he has no access to the tree of life, he has no wreath of life.
It seems that without these rewards, man is beyond -logically speaking.
Regarding spiritual gifts, of course they are, and they are all on God's table.
I pray in tongues, sing in tongues, have had a lecture a few times, a word of knowledge a few times, others have it too.
Just because the devil did his best to discredit it (a caricature of God's true gifts) does not mean that there are no true gifts from the Lord, but rather argues that if he has so disgraced them, they are very important to the church.
Finally, Paul writes:
RESPECTfully seek the spiritual gifts.
imperative,imperative mode.
For example, languages are very edifying to me, very much so,
I cannot imagine my prayer life without them and I constantly thank the Lord for them.
Jack, you can see how you are growing - keep it up.
The Lord Jesus in Mark 16.17 tells what is to accompany the believer:
17 But to them that believe, these signs shall accompany them:
In my name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take snakes in their hands, and if they drink anything poisoned it will not hurt them. They shall lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
The Church is supernatural, to serve in love with these gifts too.
They are needed, just as they were needed in the days of the apostles. for demons are not extinct, nor are the sick of this earth...
But it is good that you are now growing there and treasuring the remembrance of the supper and SEEING AS THE MOST IMPORTANT SERVING OF YOURSELF IN LOVE.
Most importantly service in love and community, yes. As here, I don't negate anyone here or at my place, even despite different experiences. Peace to you!!! 🙂 🙂
Your church is truly unique and the pastors are wonderful people. I envy you such a place, such a community 🙂 .
Jack look in the Bible that it speaks of tongues that the mind cannot comprehend and that until perfection comes - tongues, healings, prophecies, discerning of spirits will not pass away.
I have nothing against your church, but you are a cessationist, and that trend is not in the Bible. I know several people who have spiritual gifts and beautiful testimonies.
Similarly, almost no one in our church celebrates the Sabbath as it is understood here on the blog, and there is much controversy on the subject as well, or there is no wine, only juice, etc., but I will tell you that I thank God that I have the blessing that doctrinally between what I read in Scripture and what is taught in our church I do not see any discrepancy, but on the contrary - a path that has led me and the pastors to similar conclusions. Someone may have a different opinion, but it is no longer my business but that of the pastor of the church to comment on it. In our church, cessationism is considered biblical. They do a great job of explaining this issue on the Healthy Science website.
Unfortunately, this website misses the truth about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
So if I may ask, what do you think of people who have the wonderful fruit of the Spirit and have experienced His gifts contemporaneously?
I hadn't thought about it to be honest. It could be autosuggestion. A person in emotion is capable of telling themselves a lot.
Here a good text on the topic:
http://www.metropolitantabernacle.org/Polski/Artykuły/Cesacjonizm-ustanie-charyzmatycznych-darow
And to answer your question - belonging to a church is not a condition to be saved. Instead, it is the Father's will that we be like the apostles - in the local community, celebrating the Lord's Supper and serving one another.
Just as you say; no different... 🙂 .
Today when I was looking for something on the internet a certain website caught my eye: http://www.wiara-tecza.pl/
No comment...
Christians lgtb... Hmmm... There is nothing left for God to do but apologize for Sodom and Gomorrah....
it's so contradictory that it's impossible to know what to write about it....
Peter,
premarital sex is absolutely a sin.
A condition of marriage is:
A MAN WILL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER...
The bridegroom was preparing the place where he would take the bride.
Paul writes in Eph that the husband feeds and cares for his wife (as Christ does the church).
It is a feast for the community to know that these people are already taken, not to run for them.
People who "sleep" (not side by side) with each other don't even think of leaving their father and mother to start their own family and take care of it.
There is even a "PUNISHMENT" in the ST for so-called premarital sex:
that he must take her as his wife and never leave her.
That's some punishment.
If it were not a sin or evil, there would be no PUNISHMENT.
Teresa, we were talking about. Please prove to me that premarital sex is a sin. It's not in the Bible. There is only vague circumstantial evidence based on the premise of debauchery, a very broad word.
According to you, if someone lives from beginning to end with one partner for the rest of his life of course, but without marriage, is he committing adultery? He has made a covenant with his partner. It takes two to tango, consent. Adam and Eve were not married and yet they are called husband and wife.
However, in this day and age, I believe that every couple should legalize their relationship so as not to offend others.
Putin ,July 2016,ban on evangelism
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC-043mh6SQ
God can be spoken of only in legal gatherings of registered churches, the rest to be punished
ha and we have the answer....
https://wiadomosciantyekumeniczne.wordpress.com/2016/07/13/tylko-u-naszakaz-misji-i-ewangelizacji-w-rosji-w-ramach-projektu-anty-terrorystycznego/
141 Samson went down to Timnah, and saw there a woman descended from the daughters of the Philistines. 2 When he returned, he told his father and mother: "In Timna I saw a certain woman among the daughters of the Philistines. Take her to me now as a wife!" 3 His father and mother said to him: "Is there not a woman among the daughters of your brothers and in all your1 nation, that you have gone to seek a wife among the uncircumcised Philistines?" Samson answered his father: "Take me this one, for she has pleased my eyes." 4 His parents did not know that this came from the Lord, who was looking for a just cause for a dispute with the Philistines, for the Philistines were ruling over the Israelites at that time. 5 So Samson went with his father and his mother to Timnah, and as he drew near to the vineyards of Timnah, behold, a young lion came roaring up against him. 6 Then the spirit of the LORD took possession of him, so that he tore the lion as one tears a kid, though he had nothing in his hand. Yet he did not give account to his father and mother of what he had done. 7 When he came to the place, he talked with the woman, and she pleased him. 8 When after some time Samson was returning to take her as his wife, he turned aside to look at the carcass of a lion, and behold, a swarm of bees and honey were in the carcass. 9 So he took it in his hand and ate, and when he came to his father and mother, he gave them also to eat, without telling them that he had gathered the honey from the lion's carcass. 10 Then his father went to the woman, and a wedding was made to Samson
which lasted seven days, for this was the custom of the young men. 11 But because they feared2 him, they chose thirty companions to be with him.
12 Samson addressed them in the words: "Let me submit a riddle to you. If you can solve it for me within seven days, I will be able to do it.
I will give you thirty linen tunics and thirty ornamental robes.
In Revelation 19.9-the feast of the Lamb.
How can you talk about adultery if you don't know,
that it's PEOPLE'S BED.
Has this ever been announced publicly?
The community needs to know that these people have separated for each other because it makes life easier and does not encourage immorality.
God is not a God of conjecture.
Adam and Eve had no one to announce it to but themselves.
You write:not to make things worse.
So does that make people worse off?
but why?
Because God has written it into us, just as people used to be strongly offended by a man's long hair, because - Paul writes - it is against nature.
" Then his father went to that woman, and a wedding was made to Samson
Which lasted seven days, "
First of all, who gave him so many vacation days for the wedding. Second seriously there is still no order anywhere. Of course in those days no one could live with a woman without marriage. Well, unless in sin. Kesja we agree on this, but you don't want to admit to me that there is no mention in the Bible of prohibiting intercourse before marriage. What you write is as I said circumstantial and I am very much in favor of every Christian couple getting married.
I would add that if the delinquent cohabited with the girl before marriage, he paid the father 50 shekels perhaps. This is also an indication of the obligation to marry
Peter, is it a sin for them to sleep together, but for him not to marry her?
Is that how you understand it?
The thing is, there's no such thing as commitment-free sex.
What about legitimate wives vs. concubines? I think the female domestics were that kind of non-committal sex?
I know Peter has a different opinion. I believe that marriage is one and until death, the Lord Jesus restored the image of marriage from Eden "one flesh". Just as the Church is the "wife" and with the Bridegroom is one body. Israel of the ST had fornicated many times with foreign gods, but yet the Lord did not forsake them and rejoiced when they returned. They had hardened hearts and Moses allowed them polygamy or divorce. We are to be holy as a church.
The verse from Paul about freedom is difficult. In general the whole topic of marriage is like that which is why I understand Paul's phrase that it is better to remain free, I really began to understand it in the context of indissolubility, a lifelong decision with all the consequences.
I can't remember now where, but it is said that the abandoned one is exposed to adultery i.e. there is no this freedom to remarry in my estimation. Freedom could mean permanent separation?
http://www.zajezusem.com/index.php?num=5222
"She also saw that I, precisely because of all the adulteries, had rejected the deviant wife, Israel, and had given her a letter of divorce." Jeremiah 3.8
If not, then the Jews of Judaism for 2,000 years, are still the bride of God. Decide.
So sex without a marriage commitment is sinful, is that your understanding?
My understanding is that sex commits one to a covenant for life except for fornication.
I would never dare to judge someone who lives unmarried with one partner for the rest of their life.
On the other hand, I believe that the wedding should take place for many reasons. I'm going to write a text about this because I feel misunderstood.
Teresa and I agree that marriage should be. There is no agreement that cohabitation before marriage is a sin. I haven't seen that in the Bible.
Side question: were Cain and Abel illegitimate children?
The wedding is an announcement to the rest of the community that they are separating for themselves.
Cain and Abel's parents-Adam and Eve-were the only ones, there was no one to inform.
Adam said:this one is bone of my bone and.
Adam did not have a father to leave him, nor a mother, nor Eve, and God then told them about leaving their parents.
It's different conditioning.
That's good. They had no one to marry before. They could before God, but look Kesya when was the first time in the Bible that marriage was mentioned?
Noah had a wife and when he entered the ark his sons with their wives. however, as far as I remember nowhere did it say anything about marriage like it did with Adam and Eve. Do you think God would leave out such an important
order which is the wedding?
God has not omitted, for He has promised us the wedding feast of the Lamb.
There are different ceremonies in different cultures for the sign of marriage.
But the most important thing is to announce publicly to the community that you want to be married.
In communion, they wrote in the ID, it was great.
A wedding is making a covenant with each other, God and the community are witnesses.
I introduced you to what Paul is saying.
and says that cohabitation outside of marriage is fornication, which before God is sin.
Give me a quote from Kesja that says having sex before marriage is a sin
There is no agreement that cohabitation before marriage is a sin
approx.
Then what do you call sex without marriage, without commitment, what do you call it?
Sex without commitment is adultery, but I'm talking about those who are faithful to each other. Recall how it was with Janusz 🙂 did he first say: you will marry me", or something like "he wants us to be together, or "you are my woman"?
No, sex without commitment is fornication,
For fornication there is another Greek word in the Bible, and for fornication another (porneia).
You don't have to enter someone else's bed to sin fornication.
it could be someone who's "not dibs yet."
adulterers: "myos"; adulterer,
fornication: "porn": from Gr. promiscuous, sodomite, homosexual, and adulterer
Unfortunately, but none of these words speak of adultery involving sleeping with your woman out of wedlock. Let's be honest here. As I mentioned I recommend every Christian get married, we both have, but the truth is as I wrote.
Also:
A promiscuous man, pornos in Greek, describes a man who gives his body to the desires of another person for payment, a male prostitute, a homosexual, a man who engages in sexual practices that are against God's law.
An adulterer, Gr. moichos, is a person who seduces another's spouse. Regardless of the customs of a culture, God's judgment on sexual abuse remains the same.
"Faithful (moichos kai moichalis- adulterer and adulteress), do you not know that friendship(philia) with the world is enmity(echtra) toward God? So if anyone wants to be a friend of the world, he becomes an enemy of God. " James 4: 4
According to this world you can "do whatever you want" because you are just a human animal (especially in its most degenerate versions), and according to Scripture you cannot do that because it offends your dignity as an individual human servant of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. And besides, telegony.
I remember riding on the train when I was a student and I would look at the handsome guys in the compartment and when I saw a HORROR the air would immediately go out; ooo,busy.
It's very good, such a ring, it organizes everything.
You know, that would be someone else's bed.
Dot, no more dreams, look for a girl (boy) further but not here.
But we're doing well today.
"I remember riding the train when I was in college and hanging my gaze on the handsome guys in the compartment and when I saw the RIM immediately the air went out;ooo,busy."
that was me in that range 🙂
And seriously, the history of the wedding ring is barely a few hundred years old
"The custom of giving wedding rings was not adopted in the Church until the 13th century. At first it was worn only by the woman. In times of war, when a spouse went to war, this ring was broken in half and divided between the spouses to remind them of the vow of fidelity and durability of their relationship. However, the very act of giving and receiving wedding rings is treated as a union of lovers for better or for worse. Their resemblance is a sign that the man and woman are one from the moment of marriage."
On the other hand, of course, despite the young age of this tradition, I also support ringing as a signal to others: no tearing up.
Actually, it was...
I used to stop at Jer 3.8 too
But God goes on to say:
Jer 3.12...
RETURN, O Israel-Oracle of the Lord.
I will NOT show you the face of the raw,
for I am merciful - the oracle of the Lord -
I will not be angry forever.
13 JUST ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR GUILT,
That you have rebelled against the Lord your God,
and you wandered all over the roads [to strangers] -
Under every green oak tree,
and you have NOT listened to my voice - the oracle of the Lord.
14 6 RETURN, ye sons of faith - the oracle of the Lord -
For I am your Lord and I WILL ACCEPT you,
one from each city, two from each family7,
to PROVIDE to Zion.
15 And I will give you shepherds according to my heart, to feed you with wisdom and prudence. 16 And when you multiply and produce numerous offspring on the earth in those days-an oracle from the Lord-no one will say anymore: "The ark of the covenant of the Lord!" No one will think of it or mention it anymore, feel its absence, or make a new one.8
17 In those days Jerusalem will be called the Throne of the Lord.
All nations will gather in it in the name of the Lord
and they will no longer walk according to the hardness of their perverse hearts.
18 In those days the house of Judah will go to the house of Israel, and they will come according to the north country to the land that I gave for an inheritance to your ancestors.
The Lord's love and faithfulness is incomprehensible.
I had the same thing 🙂 I also stopped, then read on and then analyzed the NT.
You emphasized the word "return." For 2500 years they didn't come back.
"17 6 But if certain branches have been cut offAnd in their place you were grafted in as an olive branch, and together [with the other branches] with the same root you were joined on an equal footing with them to draw the sap of the olive.
Cut off, and in their PLACE.
In the introduction, Paul gives details:
"I ask therefore: Has God rejected His people? By no means! For I, too, am an Israelite,1 a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he chose before the ages."
But what does God's answer proclaim to him?
I left myself seven thousand men who did not bend their knees before Baal.3
5 Therefore even at this time only the remnant remain, chosen by grace. 6 But if by grace, it is no longer on account of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7 What then? Israel did not achieve what they eagerly sought; however, the elect did.
Look then at the goodness and severity of God. Harshness [is shown] to those who have fallen, and God's kindness to you, if only you persevere in [the circle of] that kindness; otherwise you'll be cut out too. 23 And they also, if they do not persist in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God has power to graft them in again
Israel's rejection is thus partial. Part has been cut off at 100% irrevocably. The rest has time.
The conclusion is this: God has found himself a new bride among the Gentiles. We are it. We are the ecclesia of Jesus, and we, too, may be partially cut out...
The way I see it, God offered Israel, the deviating wife after the letter of divorce, even more, a new heart and a new spirit if she acknowledged her guilt, but they (most) rejected it, but the root is still the same-Israel?
The root is Abraham.
"By this you may know that those who are of faith are the children of Abraham." Gal 3.7
"That the blessing of Abraham may pass to the Gentiles in Jesus Christ, and that we may receive the promised Spirit through faith
And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise.""
This is the root. We are descendants not of the flesh, but of the spirit.
I have a similar opinion to you Kesjo, Israel continues to be the chosen people, and we are grafted into it.
The fact is, they have rejected the Lord Jesus, but He is waiting for them.
We should intercede for them, that they may repent.
Lena do you think the current Zionist Israel is the chosen people?
Yes I believe they are descendants of Abraham, God's chosen people.
They have broken their covenant with God and are now more like the cradle of evil than a chosen people.
this raises a problem because if we take as a model, a model for considering the analysis of the apocalypse Israel as the beast that was and is not, this system of the Pharisees, then it would appear that the beast will be saved.
Well yes I understand what you are trying to tell me.
Nevertheless, I believe they are Israel.Unfortunately they have rejected the Lord and serve whom they serve.
Salvation is in Jesus and is available to them too, they just need a change of heart and thinking.
This is the synagogue of Satan as described in the Bible, and therefore cannot be the people of God.
Of course you can't put everyone in one pot, but political Zionists can.
I am convinced, and I know this from a report I once posted, that there are many pious Jews in Israel and they even hate Zionists, which was expressed during a protest that was passed over in silence by the media:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj-6XFbbesI
Oh you see how you wrote it beautifully ☺ and full agreement with it.
My mistake for not being specific about what I meant.
And isn't the current Israel with the star of Remfan on the flag a creation of the Rothschilds?
that's right.
And even if it was created by the Rothschilds, was it not by God's permission.
Yes, there, everything happens as part of God's provision. And not only there
And you Peter, who do you think is the chosen people?
There are few genetic Jews in Israel today, I think those who claim to be Jews but are not, and they are a synagogue of Satan (Rev. 3.9) and the natives.
The way I see it, I could be wrong.
I see it the same way
It is obvious to me what is being questioned here.
Someone's GENESES, ORIGIN is not important
because in the New Covenant the CHOSEN NATION are all those who have believed in Jesus. And this is not a genealogical election but a FAITH election.
The Lord Jesus said, to those who rejected Him, that He would take away their inheritance and give it to another nation.
That nation is a priestly nation, holy in Christ born of the Spirit.
He completely fails to understand this type of question of who is the chosen people when it is clearly and distinctly defined in the NT.
And it doesn't matter if someone in their own or someone else's opinion is good if they don't believe in Jesus, they will not be saved.
For the Lord Jesus says that only God is good, and every man has sinned.
We can preach the gospel of salvation, but if someone does not want to accept it according to the NT they are unworthy of their salvation or eternal life - they reject God's gift.
Many now say that "good people" will be saved and that one does not have to believe in God to receive a place in the Kingdom of God.
But the NT says otherwise.
Who will save you if you don't believe in God?
Who will justify you if you do not believe in Jesus?
Can man save himself?
And here is the crux, for salvation and to receive an inheritance in the Kingdom of God unquestionably requires faith in Jesus, the God of all the earth.
If it were otherwise, then Jesus came in vain, suffered in vain, taught in vain, FOR YOU NEED NOT BELIEVE IN HIM TO BE SAVED.
This is the twist of today's teachings that are not consistent with God's Word.
The greatest sin is to reject Jesus, as He Himself speaks of in the gospel.
1)Yes, the Pharisees said that they had Abraham as their father.
Yes, Abraham is the father of Israel.
Maybe some of us have abraham genes, too.
1Cor7.2
2)But in view of the danger of debauchery (porneia -wedding, debauchery), let every man have his wife, and every woman her husband.
Sex without marriage is a sin of debauchery (porneia).
1kor 6.9
9 6 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not possess the kingdom of God? Be not deceived!
Neither ROZPUSTER (PORNOS),
neither idolaters, nor adulterers, nor divorcees, nor men cohabiting with themselves, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor revilers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Sex without marriage is debauchery (porneia) and is punishable by the lake of fire (Rev. 22.15-porneia-pornos).
Dissenters.
"a debauched person, i.e. one who does not recognize moral or moral principles, leads a lavish, free lifestyle; a lewd person, a babysitter, a whore"
https://sjp.pl/rozpustnik
It should be recalled that Abraham had two sons:
James and EZAWA.
It was Jacob who was chosen by God and given the promise of inheritance, not EZAW.
In God's eyes, Jacob is the righteous one, while Esau is the rejected son of Abraham.
I have loved you, says the Lord, and you say: In what have you shown us love? Was not Esau the brother of Jacob? - saith the Lord: and yet I have loved Jacob,
And Esau I hated, and made desolate his mountains, and gave his inheritance to the jackals of the desert.
Though Edom say, We are indeed broken down, but we will rebuild the ruins again, the Lord of hosts says: They shall rebuild, but I will tear down; and they shall call them a land of iniquity, and a people against whom the Lord is always angry.
Your eyes will see it and you will confess it for yourselves: Great is the Lord beyond the borders of Israel.
A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If I am the father, WHERE IS MY Worship? And if I am the master, WHERE IS MY FEAR BEFORE ME? - Says the Lord of hosts to you priests who despise my name. Yet ye say: In what have we despised your name? Mal.1
This passage points to people who have no fear of God, no obedience to the Father's commands.
They serve the devil.
It was to these descendants of Esau from the lineage of Abraham that Jesus was speaking. This was the Pharisaic Edom.
That is why the Lord Jesus said, so what if you invoke Abraham, that you have him as your father, when your DOINGS ARE WRONG, ABRAHAM DID NOT DO THAT.
Esau in his covetousness of belly gave his pre-eminence to Jacob. This, by the way, happened with God's permission.
Today the descendants of the Pharisees, using lies, deceit and trickery, want to claim this leadership for themselves by calling themselves the chosen people, which is a lie.
They do so contrary to what God has decreed and promised, and His promise is sure.
The Lord Jesus gave an important clue to be able to recognize them - it is the fruit they bear.
Whoever is supporting this "nation" at this time is actually supporting Satan himself in rebuilding Satan's kingdom on earth.
It helps establish his authority over all the earth.
Cain,Kenites,Canaanites,Edomites,Idumeans,Pharisees,Rabbis,Jews.
Snakes! Lizard-kind! and how can ye escape the judgment of hellfire?
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes; and of them ye shall kill and crucify some, and scourge some in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city;
That all the blood of righteousness, which was shed upon the earth, might come upon you FROM THE BLOOD OF THE JUST ABEL, unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachiah, which ye slew between the church and the altar.
Verily I say unto you, It shall all come upon this nation.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which were sent unto thee, Whenever I would have gathered thy children together, as a cockatoo gathereth his chickens under his wings, and ye would not?
Behold, your house will remain empty.
The Lord Jesus Himself tells us that they are the offspring of Cain.
They are the enemies of the righteous people, the offspring of Jacob.
That's why Jews today are so self-denying that they don't have to convert to Jesus.
And others say not to convert them.
WHY?
The Lord Jesus explains it, they cannot and cannot believe in the Messiah because they have the devil for a father and not God. That is why their deeds are so bad.
They have built their power on lies, they have no mercy for people.This is a nation that is against all people on earth except themselves.
And they said unto him, WE ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, AND HAVE NEVER SERVED ANYONE: as thou sayest, Ye shall be free.
And Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that whosoever doeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant does not dwell in the house forever, but the Son dwells forever.
Therefore, if the Son delivers you, you shall be truly free.
I know THAT YOU ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM: but ye seek to kill me, that MY SPEECH hath NO PLACE IN YOU.
What I have seen of my Father, I say; and what you have seen of your Father, do ye also.
They answered and said to him, Our father is Abraham. And Jesus said unto them, IF YOU WERE ABRAHAM'S SONS, YOU WOULD DO ABRAHAM'S WORKS.
But now ye seek to slay me, this man, whereof I have told you the truth, which I have heard of God; ABRAHAM HAVE NOT DOEN THIS.
YE DO THE WORKS OF YOUR FATHER. And they said to him: We are not begotten in sexual intercourse, but we have one Father, God.
Then Jesus said to them, "If God were your father, then you would love me, for I came from God and am come; I came from myself, but he sent me.
Why do you not understand my novel? BECAUSE YOU CANNOT HEAR MY SPEECH.
YOU ARE FROM YOUR FATHER A LIE, and do ye the lusts of your father: for he was a MAN from the beginning, and hath not stayed in the truth: for in him is no truth: when he speaketh a lie, of his own he saith, HE IS A LIE, AND THE FATHER OF A LIE.
And I, that I am telling the truth, DON'T BELIEVE ME.
Which of you will blame me for sin? If I speak the truth, do ye not believe me?
He that is of God heareth the words of God; THEREFORE YOU DO NOT HEAR, THAT YOU ARE NOT OF GOD.
And the Jews answered and said unto him, Sayest thou not that we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and that thou hast transgressed?
Jesus answered, I have no idolatry, but I worship my Father; and YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME.
I am not seeking my glory; he is the one who seeks and judges.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If any man keep my words, he shall not see death for ever.
And the Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou art a rabble, and Abraham is dead, and the prophets, and thou sayest, If any man keep my words, he shall not taste death for ever;
Art thou not greater than our father Abraham, who is dead, and the prophets are dead?
Jesus answered: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God.
BUT YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM, and I know him; and if I had said that I did not know him, I would have been a liar like you; but I know him, and keep his words.
Abraham your father joyfully demanded to see my day, and he watched and rejoiced.
And the Jews said unto him: Fifty years hast thou not yet, and hast thou seen Abraham?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
And they took up stones to hurl at him; but Jesus took refuge, and went out of the church, and passed through their midst, and so escaped.
See what the seed of the serpent says at the beginning:
WE HAVE NEVER SERVED ANYONE
By this they confessed that they never served God, they always serve only themselves - gods on earth
Sorry, but it was supposed to be Isaac son of Abraham had two sons, EZAW and Jacob.
It's not about the Bible.
Here it is clear that if you do not have a wife and you have sexual affairs, you are a fornicator, a debauchee.
Porn is unfortunately a broad term, hence today's pornography.
According to God, a person who has sex without marriage is also a fornicator.
He sins,that's why it makes decent people worse,because most people today say,let them pose,let them prove themselves,if they don't then they will split.It's very practical.
This is also what parents say about their children.
and whatnot, let them prove themselves.
well you see, you accept Kesja's official marriage as not spiritual, but you don't accept the dictionary interpretation of "debauchery".
You can't be a judge in a biblical case on a whim. So either you convince me biblically what porneia is, or you show how debauchery is understood from the Greek.
Peter, thanks for the discussion, because it is very enriching.
1)I accept dictionary debauchery only supplemented biblically because the world does not seem to know it.
2)I gave you 1 Corinthians 7.2 about porneia as, among other things, the sin of premarital sex with justification.
You call it a vision-it's hard-it's hard.
The crowning achievement of the marriage is sex, never the other way around.
But now it's the bomb - a must-read for everyone, because it's about us.
https://koscioldrogi.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/jaszua-jezus-i-jego-oblubienica/
I like these sites because I learn more about God through the traditions.
However, no one in their right mind in this day and age would pay a father for a bride and deprive themselves of the pleasure of so-called dating otherwise.
Of course I support staying chaste until marriage. Something beautiful. Unfortunately, in this day and age it is becoming more and more unrealistic...
And I will gather the remnant of Israel, and the scepter shall not depart from Judah .
I remembered still ML 2.14-speaking of the marriage covenant.
Do you think, that first there is sex, and then establishing the conditions of the covenant, or vice versa - first the conditions and after the agreement only "consumption"?
For me, it's definitely the latter.
The former makes no sense.
And also the Lord Jesus-first made a covenant with us, to which we agreed, and only then shall we be married, not the other way around.
As for the angels in Revelation, I'd say they're superiors, overseeing the flock...
An angel is not a sent one but a herald, an apostle is a sent one, so these elders are to preach to the people.
Verses e.g.
Rev 2.10-do not be afraid of suffering...
2.20-that you allow...
2.24-am the others...
3.10-you've kept...
indicate that it's about a person.
Of course this is also to everyone, for the shepherd is to be a model for the flock, so God starts with him.
These are of course also phases of the church..., on various levels it can be considered.
Regarding community-if someone is truly converted, they will ALWAYS be drawn to their brothers and sisters,
Unless he is temporarily injured, he will still seek others, even one person, to share his joys and sorrows in the Lord and to serve and worship the Lord.
Where 2 or 3 - already such a small community is enough to also correct each other, of course reasonably - which is also needed.